bound for white plains new york when it developed landing prlems. despite the sparks, no was injured and everyone landed safely. amazing that someone has the presence of mind to take out their cell phone and not be in the crash position. >> i assume they were in the crash position. >> yeah, night. that's it for $360." see you tomorrow night. "larry king" starts right now. >> larry: tonight, ann coulter. did she really say that sarah palin is more influential than the president? why did she call some republicans whining babies? we'll talk tax cuts, taerpts and christine o'donnell's link to witchcraft. stephen colbert, was he making congress or making a point?

ann coulter and marc lame melaml face off. i'll referee. that's next on larry kick live. good evening, our second week in new york and we kick it off with -- they lined up the wrong way. ann kulter is on the left, conservative commentator, "new york times" best selling author. and mark lam mo nt hill, professor at columbia university. he hosts the tv news magazine series "all world with black enterprise" on cable tv's one. you said in a recent interview, ann, you don't really want republicans to win both houses. why? >> well, part of is justi justification for what i think was going to happen. i never thought the republicans could take a senate because only a third of the senators are up in any one election cycle, and

it happens that the third that are up this year come from very blue states. i mean, california, new york, oregon, washington. illinois, it's just not a good year for us and we have to pick up ten seats. i never thought we could pick up the senate. part of the reason i was mentioning it was how silly it is for establishment republicans to be upset about christine o'donnell. we were never going to take it anyway and she's a lot of fun. >> larry: do you think she's representative of what is the tea party and the insurgent group on the right? >> absolutely. part of the loon wing on the republican party. you guys are loons, and they are gaining traction and mattering. five years ago she would be a laughing stock, three years ago she would be the laughing stock and right now she's in the middle of a senate race that could maybe win this thing as a dark horse. >> does it worry you? >> not really. the more we see of christine

o'donnell the more we can galvanize. people can't take christine o'donnell and sarah palin seriously. >> first of all, christine o'donnell, i love her, but she's totally not representative. i would joe miller of alaska, yale law, an iraqi war veteran and rand paul. the basic idea is you have principled republicans but you've been replaced as my favorite liberal with mickey kouse. >> larry: he is not your favorite liberal? >> not anymore. >> larry: what did he point out to you? >> how crazy it is that christine o'donnell is being attacked for things like opposing pornography and she is on the defensive saying, well, that was 10, 12 years ago. what is it with this country that you can't have a social conservative opposed to pornography? does anybody oppose pornography. >> larry: we'll get back to her. what is it with this country, marc? what's going on? every guest right and left said they have never seen any more anger. >> there's a lot of anger and a

lot has to do with who is in the white house and people don't have jobs and people are looking for someone to blame. easy to blame the white house and congress and more fundamental issues. >> larry: when roosevelt took over for here and the depression lasted a long while, he got re-elected with 46 states. >> i think you'll see obama get re-elected. democrats will pay the price right now, but other presidents have been able to celebrate the achievements. the obama administration have had thin skin, been reactionary and it's all been talk about what they have done wrong. >> larry: did he run better than he governs? >> oh, yes. >> larry: what do you make of that? how do you read that? >> he ran basically as a moderate democrat. he has this lovely family. he's a nice speaker. he looks like a regular guy. >> larry: let's change up those three things. >> from some of our perspective, he's a nice guy, buddies with bill ayers and governing the way bill ayers would have.

>> larry: you're still on that. >> that script is like two years ago. his buddies is bill ayers. >> what has he done that bill ayers would not have done? >> ann, bill ayers is a far left person, closer to me than he is to president obama. president obama is a centrist. >> larry: he got elected since bill ayers. he was elected after bill ayers. >> what do you mean. >> larry: after bill ayers came on to the scene. >> what i'm saying conservatives keep bringing up, for example, more americans now think that obama is a muslim than did, you know, six months ago. usually the truth moves in the opposite direction. why do so many americans say that they think that obama is a muslim? >> that's the loon wing. >> no. >> are you serious? >> the answer is because he's seems foreign to them, that he's pushing this european health care system on america, that -- that he doesn't listen to the american people, that he doesn't cite god when he mentions the declaration of independence. he seems -- he seems alien, and i keep telling them, no, he's

not a muslim, he's an atheist, governing the way bill ayers would. >> larry: so when he makes the statement he's a christian you're calling him a liar? >> i wouldn't say i call all democrats much when they say they believe in god and i would love to get them under a polygraph test. sorry they replaced your replacement. my idea for a tv show. liberals sit, i'd sit where you are, i'll be on a polygraph, too. but i want liberals, maybe not you, under a polygraph and i'll ask them if they believe in god and love their country and you know i would get a lot of them. >> and i would ask republicans are they opposing policy do they believe it in ideologically or do they oppose obama. >> larry: do you have to believe in god to govern? >> no. >> larry: why do you point that out? why does it believe or not? >> if it doesn't matter, ask president obama, ask bill clinton. >> larry: someone said he was a

muslim. >> why doesn't he come out from the beginning and why doesn't bob clinton and bob kerrey come out and john kerry say we don't believe in god, are you kidding us. we're walmart voters. >> we started from the assumption that barack obama doesn't believe in god. faith informs many of his decisions. that's not a lot of problem. over the last year, as you pointed out, people belief he's muslim now more than a year ago says this whole country is bonkers. even if you don't like his tax policy or education policy or health care, nothing islamic with universal health care. it means we're nuts. that's what it means. >> i'll back you up in one small way. >> larry: ann, don't give in. >> this is progress. >> the idea that he was not born in this country is madness for many reasons. my newspaper, along with all these other conservative newspapers pointed it out during 2002 but the main reason he's crazy, if he weren't born in this country and had immigrated here, he'd probably love america

now. he's more like bill ayers than a recent immigrant who came loving america. >> obama loves america, written books about loving america. >> larry: maybe illegal immigrants love america. look what they go through to get here. >> exactly, because of failed u.s. policy. >> larry: i don't know what i'm talking about. anyway, we'll be back with ann coulter and marc lamont hill and i'll fade in the scene. as the show goes on, i won't be here the last ten minutes. we'll just let them go. to keep in balance after 50, i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day women's 50+ advantage has gingko for memory and concentration plus support for bone and breast health. a great addition to my routine. [ female announcer ] one a day women's.

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>> larry: by the way, wednesday night, bob woodward live right here. a new book out. we're back to her now, christine o'donnell. that's the her. the gop senate nominee in delaware made comments years ago on bill maher's "politically incorrect." maher vows that he'll keep replaying o'donnell clips until she appears as a guest on "real time." watch. >> i dabbled in witchcraft. i never joined a could havent. >> wait a minute. were you a witch. >> yeah, she was a witch. >> i didn't join a could have ent. let's get this straight. >> wait, i love this. you're a witch. halloween -- i was a witch. >> that's exactly why. >> how was she a witch? >> i dabbled in witchcraft and hung around people who were doing these things. >> having fun. >> i'm not making stuff up. one of my dates, my first dates >> wait, wait, wait, i want to hear about this. >> one of my first dates with a

witch was on a satanic altar and i didn't know it. >> larry: is this relevant? >> no, but she wasn't running for senate then. she was on "politically incorrect." >> larry: she was a witch then. >> right. >> the day of the election i was telling my friends i'm sort of glad i don't have to take a position on this because she's great. she will vote well, but it's delaware. castle, her opponent, the establishment republican, who only votes with the republicans about 40% of the time. >> larry: who would have won. >> probably. we don't know actually because of the tea party movement. i think he might -- i think his chances of win were not as strong as people said. the night she won, and i came home and i was so happy. i realized deep in my heart i was for christine o'donnell. in the senate it's not as important a job as being a governor or a mayor which is why somebody like dianne feinstein or giuliani, there are a lot of dumb senators. >> of course. >> all they have to do is vote. >> larry: giuliani isn't a senator. >> pardon. i'm saying by contrast that is a

serious job to have to run for president. look, whatever they say about christine o'donnell, there is no one stupider in politics than patty murray, democrat of washington. >> there it is. we were doing so well. >> so don't talk about christine o'donnell, but she would definitely -- you don't need to be smart to be a senator. all you do is vote. she will definitely vote right, and sorry one more quick point. >> not as supd as the stupidist person. >> a democrat and we're not making fun of patty murray all the time. >> larry: we'll set up a patty murray/christine o'donnell debate. >> yes. >> larry: featured on "family guy." >> can sarah palin moderate it, please. that will be perfect. >> she's very smart. >> sarah palin. >> i spent a little bit of time with sarah palin and i didn't get that to her. her knowledge to the issues was very, very low, embarrassingly low. >>ration kids in alaska, running wasilla. >> running mayberry. that's the problem. that's why she shouldn't be running for national office.

>> she isn't. that's how how smart she is. >> whatever, and the issue with o'donnell, i don't think she's that bright but most importantly i don't think she's qualified. >> totally qualified. >> if i brought her out to you as a potential candidate you would have said hell no. >> i might have run her in a different state than delaware but i think she does have a chance to win. >> i think so, too. >> and one of my libertarian, doesn't care about the social issues, just wants his tax cuts friends, told me years ago given a choice between republicans, both say they are going to cut your taxes, one pro-life, one pro choice he'll vote for the pro-lifer because you can only trust pro-lifers to cut your taxes so i think can you trust christine o'donnell to vote right. >> lowering taxes at all times at the expense of social programs. if you don't care about the social good that's okay. >> larry: let them eat cake. >> exact successfully not christine o'donnell. she cares about the social issues and about people and will do a lot more for people --

>> larry: let him get a word in. don't dominate. >> she does this to me. it's very hurtful. it's a very sad moment that's how low our bar is that someone like that could be running for the senate. personally i jumped up and down for joy because i said this is something the democrats can now win but it's showing that the tea party is influencing the elections which is interesting whether it's the pledge to america or -- >> larry: how did your side get put on the defense sniff. >> first of all, we began from a bad position. first of aural, the obama administration started with this health care stuff which i thought was very smart, okay to start with health care as a major policy initiative but we had the political capital and momentum and instead of the white house producing a document useful that the american people could respond to we give to pelosi and reid. that was an unwise move, and then we went around town hall meetings, unprepared and embarrassing ourselves and we made a very bad start to something and put us in a defensive position allowing the tea party white wing nut jobs to emerge. >> larry: speaking of christine, "saturday night live" kicked off their new season, kicking off

the comedy agenda, it began the program, a parody of miss o'donnell. watch. >> this race is going to tighten up and when it does it will be a real dog fight. you need to understand that. >> look, please don't try to tell me about dog fights, okay. i know all about dog fights. for your information, gentlemen, i used to run a business staging dog fights. >> really. >> dog fights, like michael vick. >> no, much better than michael vick's. i've been to michael vick's dog fights. they were lame. >> larry: we'll be back with more. what a great country, huh? don't go away. lindsey vonn, she stays tough!

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>> larry: back with ann coulter and marc lamont hill, both well known in their own rights. may be announcing marital plans soon. would that be great? that could soothe america. okay. is it going to be a sweep this fall, do you think? >> no. >> no, i don't think so. >> absolutely. >> ann is right about the senate. >> the incoming party always loses. >> not in 2002. >> exactly. >> bush picked up seats in 2002. >> larry: he had 9/11. >> i can tell you we're not

going to pick up seat but in the house i don't think we'll lose as much ground. democrats have overstated the loss so it will look like we had a lot of momentum after november. >> i agree. >> larry: you think this is a brilliant democratic move. >> i don't think preaching doom and gloom is a good move. there have been victories over the past two years that we've spent so much time counting the losses playing defense. if the democrats celebrate what they have won, benefits of health care, a domestic agenda that includes an extraordinary hiv/aids program, education reform. done some major stuff here. need to celebrate that and if we do that, we win. >> people hate health care. i hope democrats are listening to you, but -- >> larry: remember, money is not the most important thing. health is 3%. >> there has never been less than a majority since health care has passed that has not favored repeal. in other words, a majority has favored repeal since it passed. right now it's 60%, the democrats thought once it get it passed, the people will love it. the people do not love it so that's why they are not talking about health care.

>> every major study of health care shows when you go bit by bit point by point people like the stuff. >> who is reading what the benefits are to them? >> larry: how about preconditions? >> exactly. >> larry: that's covered for children. you think that's bad? >> i think it's madness. it's not insurance. you don't buy insurance for your house after your house has burned down. >> larry: a kid with cancer should die? >> no. under a free market system people would be able to buy insurance without having to pay half. >> larry: what if you can't buy it? >> without everyone having to pay for your viagra and pre-natal counseling and gambling problems. democrats have screwed up the system. >> larry: you're a 3-year-old kid with canser. >> cancer a very bad example and i'm answering you. in a free market system they would already have insurance. >> larry: last time i checked cancer was a major disease. >> let me make the argument that you're trying to make. cancer, it's very bad. if you set up a system where the only way you can buy insurance for your house is if you insure the white house and the fire house and the police house and

the mosques down the road, fewer people will have insurance for their homes. that's the system we have now. you make it easier to buy insurance without having to pay for viagra and gambling problems. >> larry: 48 million uninsured. >> pre-existing conditions, people are worried about are the ones where someone is born, just lost a lottery, born with a child with spina bifida. >> larry: correct. >> you're talking about fewer -- all of the cases like that, you're talking about fewer than probably 2% of the cases. let's say it's 10%. set up a system, everyone in america would be in favor of paying for those people. head start, can i start with that, cut out the department of education and cut out the department of commerce, all of which do nothing and pay for those people. >> that's absurd. >> but you don't wreck the entire free market system. >> larry: do you favor cutting out the pentagon? >> one we would agree to keep. >> yes. >> all of this is beside the point is the american people are not against health care reform. they have fatigue from the process and many people in the

left are against the multi-national corporations getting billions of dollars streamed into it. >> larry: that was a big proposal in congress you can't take a tax break which send a worker overseas which give you a break. why did the republicans oppose this? >> i have no idea what this bill is so i can't comment. >> it's a bill from the left, cap and trade, bills that are free-market oriented and have come from the right, when they get co-opted by the left the republicans don't like it anymore. >> give me one that i've read. >> cap and trade is free market, you've got to be kidding! >> yes, absolutely free market oriented, much more so than any other organic left-wing proposal. >> everyone -- no. >> five years ago -- >> a hidden tax, everyone's electricity bill will go through the roof to fight an imagine any phenomenon global warming. >> doesn't believe in global warming. >> either does your father. >> larry: check with l.a. and global warming.

i'm fading now into the senior. >> talking about my father, doesn't believe in dinosaurs. >> oh, he believes in dinosaurs. >> larry: what's his father have to do with it? >> this is not -- this is what right wingers do, throw things out to confuse us. >> i just happen to know that his father is a very sensible man, and if he's going to bring up this crazy thing about she doesn't believe in global warming, most americans don't believe in it, including your very sensible father. >> the point is five years ago the -- the republicans were talking about cap and trade. they were proposing cap and trade and proposing more market-based solutions. >> we were not proposing cap and trade. >> absolutely and democrats offered this stuff and suddenly they don't like it anymore and over the last two or three years we've seen proposal after proposal, whether it's a small business plan being offered by obama, whatever democrats offer republicans are postured to say no. it's the most unpatriotic and undemocratic thing i've ever seen. >> i'll say no to that. >> exactfully. >> that is not true. >> larry: got to be good to her

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it was an honor. booming is moving forward by giving back. >> larry: we are back with ann coulter and marc lamont hill. before we get to other issues, let's talk about sarah palin. didn't you say she is more influential than the president? >> a president. >> larry: any president? >> the question is she going to

run for president? >> president of what? >> and i said -- this is like asking if rush limbaugh is going to run for president. she is having a lot of fun, making massive influence, making money. why would either of them run for president? they would lose the influence? lose the money and lose the ability -- >> and lose the election. lose the election. a poll came out today her unfavorables are up to 42%, higher than anybody in the pool. >> that's pretty close to your president obama. >> she doesn't have the favorables. >> larry: what she's saying if it's palin versus obama nobody votes. >> right, right, right. >> sizing the drapes for the second term of obama's administration. no way sarah palin beats obama. i don't think she beats huckabee or mitt romney in a primary. >> speculation is unimportant. whether she could beat obama, i don't know. >> let me ask you a question. >> i think she's a strong candidate. >> do you think she would be an effective president? >> the media keeps talking about, you mentioned sarah palin

or christine o'donnell. >> larry: what does the former governor -- >> either one of those two, and the hits on your web page go through the roof. people like to hear about sarah palin and christine o'donnell. >> they like to mock sarah palin. even republicans don't want sarah palin. karl rove, major strategist doesn't want sarah palin. >> larry: what about karl rove? >> this is why there's a tea party movement, because of the establishment republicans who have -- >> larry: karl rove is an example of that? >> yeah, and a lot of republicans in washington have basically taken the position we're going to be the washington generals to the democrats harlem globetrotters. we'll be good losers, get favorable press. everyone will love us and go to cocktail parties and make half a million a year being lobbyists and i promise you we will lose. the tea partiers got fed up with that. >> you think that's a viable political movement. >> i do. >> you can influence gubernatorial elections or a

senate seat but no way a tea party candidate can push a president into the white house. >> talking about the tea party movement in general. >> they are nut jobs and extremists. they are overpopulated by extremists. >> you're talking about half of america as nut jobs. >> you think the tea parties represents half of americans. >> according to the "new york times" and "usa today" polls about 25% to 40% of americans say they agree with the tea parties. wait a second. >> the issues they tend to agree with are issues like wanting social security and medicare and continuing veterans benefits. >> wanting to cut taxes, repeal health care. >> that's the contradiction, that's the contradiction of the tea party. most of them -- >> gay marriage. >> forget gay marriage. >> we're coming back to that. >> most tea party members favor medicare and social security benefits, social benefits and want to cut taxes. want a whole bunch of stuff but don't want to pay taxes. >> i think you're wrong about that. that has been the contradiction with voters generally which is why both republicans and democrats haven't been cutting

spending. >> that's the problem with the tea party movement. >> ben nelson gets a special deal for nebraska and gets booed in pizza parlors, the first time people want to cut spend. >> larry: is day marriage a democratic/republican issue? >> in the most -- in the most basic political sense absolutely. people on the left tend to favor this. but divide the democratic party into sub groups, african-american people in california, they tend not to support gay marriage issues which i think is very sad. black people just got the vote to vote last week in marriage -- >> gays can vote, marc. >> my point is we just started getting rights recently. we black people really have been voting since 1965 and the voter rights act so it's difficult for black people to oppose civil liberties of other people and it's tough we're voting on the civil liberties of other people. >> oh, come on. marc, let me tell you how black people think about this. >> please, do. >> larry: tell him. >> the issue is blacks were brought here in slave ships.

they were enslaved. >> that's true. >> the states discriminated against them for a hundred years. >> absolutely. >> civil rights is a black issue and now everybody in america wants to be black, the feminists, the gays. >> everybody in america wants civil rights. >> what civil rights are gays being denied. >> larry: if civil rights is an issue that involves all of us, all want our civil rights, why should gay people be any less? >> they do have special rights. >> larry: they can't mayory. >> they can't marry someone of the same sex, neither can you, neither can i. >> you say gay people can get married as long as they are not gay anymore. that's absurd. >> don't say this is equal rights. >> you should have the right to marry whoever you want. that's the point. >> that's absolutely not the purpose for marriage. >> my personal belief is everyone should get civil unions and if people want to get married they should get married by their religion. >> destroying the family has done such a great thing for people in the america and the

black family. >> i believe in the separation of church and state and crumbling economies and crack and police brutality is crumbling the black family. >> the end of the black family was done by oh -- >> you think gay marriage signals the end of a black tomly? >> it's over because of other liberal policies. it's because of what liberals did to the black family that we see how important a mother and a father are. mommy and daddy must be married to one another, as i detailed in chapters of my last book "guilty." >> larry: can civil union and marriage be a religious institution? >> i'm not talking about religion, larry. >> she doesn't want to do that. wants to keep the connection between church and state connection. >> it has nothing to do with the church. it has to do with civilization and civilization requires the family which means a mother and a father raising a children. >> that's a religious narrative. let a church do it. >> it has nothing to do with that. >> what world does the state have to play -- >> it's the state that's been subsidizing illegitimacy for 30 years and look what that has

done to the black family, it's destroyed it. >> if the black family is not together in terms of a family, crumbling economies, poor education systems and crack in the community -- >> the difference between black and white crime rates disappear if you take out black illegitimacy, can we concentrate on that fact for a moment. >> if you look at non-custodial fathers who are involved you don't see a high crime rate. >> no, no, no, no. >> larry: let me get a break. >> crazy thing called data, statistics, i had. >> oh, no. you want data, look at my last book. >> larry: hold it. hold it. this keeps up the marriage ain't going to work. maybe it will. by the way, do you agree or not with ann coulter about sarah palin and influence on the presidency? go to whoisright.com/larryking and weigh in.

i don't know what i'm talking about. we'll be right back. wasn't like that? huh? it's just an "us" thing. yeah, it's a little something we do. who else is in this so-called "us"? man, i don't know. there's a lot of us. [ chuckles ] ask your friends what it's like to be part of a group that's 40 million strong. state farm insures more drivers than geico and progressive combined. it's no surprise, with so many ways to save and discounts of up to 40%. so call an agent at 1-800-state-farm or go online.

>> larry: speaking of rights, i asked you if gay marriage is a democratic/republican issue. is the mosque near 9/11 site a democratic/republican issue? >> yes, it is. it appears to be. i mean, it wasn't at first. >> larry: are you against their right to have it? >> no. republicans have been consistent. we admit there is a right, and i think we shouldn't do it. same thing with the guy who was going to burn the koran in

florida. he has a right to do it, but we think he shouldn't. >> larry: okay. >> i don't know why obama lept into this. >> well, i think his strategy and engaging the issue was wrong. i think strategically it was a bad idea, just like with the christmas bombers, a lot of things he's done wrong strategically but the point is right. this is an issue of religious freedom and the republican point, this is an issue of decency, not about right or wrong in terms of the constitution. this is about decency, but my problem is to think that a mosque is somehow hurtful or disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 requires you to have an islamophobic position, you have to be already xenophobic and islamophobic to take that position. it's really a cultural center, nothing wrong with a mosque being a few blocks away from the world trade center site. >> larry: there was one in the world trade center. >> exactly. >> muslims died in 9/11. christians weren't the only people who died. >> i think can i explain that, too. much like americans checking off the box, more of them thinking that the president is a muslim. i think it is possible, i don't know if they would have tried, but i think it's possible that if the mosque had gone up during

the bush administration you would not have gotten this reaction, but what you see with obama is him backing down, backing down, backing down. after the shooting at ft. hood he says let's not jump to conclusions. same thing with the christmas day bomber. he's bowing to world leaders in the middle east and the far east. it's like a vigilante justice system when you feel like the government isn't doing your job and you get angrier and want to do it yourself. there's more anger about the mosque because americans feel like obama isn't being tough enough on islamic terrorism >> i think president obama has adopted the same strategy as the bush administration. what obama has done again is had a bad public relations problem. doesn't seem to be empathetic and doesn't seem to feel. >> larry: the perception is reality. >> perception is absolutely reality. let's talk about that. let's not pretend he's prosecuting a war on terror in a way that's passive. let's not pretend him waiting six days to come out or three days to come out and talk about the christmas day bomber is any different than bush who took six

days to talk about umar farouk abdulmutallab in 2002. republicans mention -- they keep carrying out these things that obama has done and act as if he's wildly different than bush. my critique is that he's too much like bush. i do agree with you -- >> civilian trials are a big difference. >> well -- well, there have been civilian trials under the bush administration. >> not for the mastermind of 9/11. >> i do agree there's a different context but there's something to be said about showing the world community that our court system can give you a fair trial and still get the verdict that we want. i think there's a safety issue. i think there's a perception issue for the people in new york and whatever state we would move it to. that's a legitimate consideration and why they backtracked on it but i don't think it's wrong as such to try to have a civilian trial and i think you get the same outcome. >> but what if you don't? i always thought that argument was a little bit weird. >> it doesn't matter. >> then why do it? >> even if they were found not guilty, do you think they would walk out of the courtroom like

some mobster -- >> democrats claiming that, then there's no point to having a civilian trial and you're not going to let them going. you're wasting everybody's time and money. >> it's not an act of anti-patriotism, not a soft position on terror. it's a political decision. >> either let them go or it's a show trial. >> i agree it's a show trial but they are saying he's soft on terror because of it. you might not like the strategy but he's not soft on tissue. >> it's a show trial. >> larry: walks out, somebody will shoot him. it's america. >> wow. >> larry: will he be able to get a gun? >> i mean -- >> larry: wouldn't last a day. >> you don't want people taking the law into their own hands. >> larry: i'm kidding. >> i know, but that is a legitimate reaction. that's why people are so mad about the mosque. >> the patriot act, they wouldn't be -- they wouldn't be let go, still enemy combatants and detainees. they would not be let go. that's not at stake. the point about the show trial is fine. the other point is not true. >> larry: let me get a break.

did stephen colbert make a spectacle of congress or himself last week? we'll debate that with ann coulter and marc lamont hill after this. ♪ ♪ i like your messy hair ♪ i like the clothes you wear ♪ i like the way you sing ♪ and when you dance with me ♪ you always make me smile [ male announcer ] we believe you're at your best when you can relax and be yourself. and at thousands of newly refreshed holiday inn express hotels, you always can. holiday inn express. stay you. and now stay rewarded with a sweet dilemma. up to five free nights at any of our properties or double points.

>> larry: we're back. if you live in chicago, ann coulter will appear this october 7th, and can you check her website, anncoulter.com to find her. >> yes. thank you. >> larry: find out where you can move to. comedian stephen colbert is getting mixed reviews for his recent appearance on capitol

hill. he testified last friday at a hearing on my grant labor. watch. >> we all know there is a long tradition of great nations importing foreign workers to do their farm work. after all, it was the ancient israelites who built the first food pyramids but this is america. i don't want a tomato picked by a mexican. i want it picked by an american, then sliced by a guatemalan and served by a venezuelan in a spa where a chilean gives me a brazilian. >> larry: did they get it or not? >> they did. first of all, that's hilarious. let's just acknowledge it. republicans don't have a sense of humor. >> that's why republicans are pretending to think it's funny. >> that's why you are so square. this issue of decorum, there's an issue of mocking congress. not a big fan of this. >> larry: was he mocking congress? >> i think so to some extent. >> they deserve to be mocked but that's not the space for it. >> i think they are pretending it was funny so liberals don't

think they have a sense of humor. seas the same joke every night. >> larry: he does that joke every night. >> yes, he plays dorky, stupid walmart consumer right winger. >> the average republican. >> larry: it's the same gag. >> night after night after night. >> larry: night after night jay leno comes out -- >> tells a completely different joke. he's doing a parody. >> it's nuanced. they are informed by the news. >> i not only agree with you that this is totally mocking congress. >> she's agreeing. >> but who is he mocking in particular? he's mocking americans who have massive unemployment right now who don't want immigrants, illegal immigrants often taking their jobs. >> larry: but they don't -- they don't want to pick grapes. >> bigots, well, he seems to think they are a bunch of bigots. >> no. >> and that is even more offensive than mocking congress. >> i don't think he's mocking everyday americans. i do think some americans are wrong on their stance of immigration policies, immigration policies, what happened in arizona over the last few months. i think there's a problem there.

>> larry: what about the people who hire illegal immigrants? >> that's a problem. we need substantive immigration reform. part what have we saw in arizona was a response to a white house that hasn't done much about that or hasn't done enough about that. i think the response was wrong, completely wrong headed. >> larry: the republicans didn't agree with bush's policy? >> that was one of the few things that bush actually began to make sense on, guest worker policies, allowing families to reunite on the other side of the border and nobody has talked about exchanging trade policies so they don't have to push into the united states. we talk about what happens with people once they get here. let's talk about nafta and faulty trade policies that undermine the ability that mexican farmers can have a life in mexico. >> larry: disagree with nafta, that was a clinton policy. >> that allows trade and would seem to cut down on illegal immigration but we'll lose the whole audience if we go in the nafta. could i attack the republicans for a moment. your point i totally agree with, what about the people who hire the illegals? i agree 100%. they are the ones making the rest of us pay -- they are not paying the workers --

>> larry: it's a criminal ability. >> but don't worry, the taxpayers will take care of your schooling, your hospitalization, your medical care. now, that is an elite establishment republican issue compared to the tea party republicans. the tea party republicans do not want to protect the employers and force all taxpayers to pay for it. >> they don't want to protect anyone. >> larry: don't ask, don't tell, sounds like a description of this show. we'll get to that next. i didn't miss a premium payment for 10 years. the minute i got sick, i lost my insurance. not anymore. america's healthcare reforms change lives for the better. to find out how it can help you, visit us at americasfairhealthcare.org

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>> larry: we have some breaking news to report. cnn's john king has learned that president obama's chief of staff, rahm emanuel, is all but certain to run for mayor of chicago. let's check in now with anderson cooper. he'll host "ac 360" at the top of the hour. anderson, is that your lead? >> well, we'll have more of that story, without a doubt. also keeping them honest. politicians distorting the truth to get your vote. a florida democratic congressman alan grayson label his opponent a member of the taliban and re-editing his challenger statement for keeping them honest. and a north carolina republican, uses news clip to underscore his military service but edits out the part about him being indicted for murder which motivated the news reports in the first place. charges were dropped, but the ad hasn't been. and new developments in the scholarship scandal involving

two democratic members of congress supposed to give charity money to needy kids and instead, gave it to their relatives and staffers' kids. one of the congress people, eddie bernice johnson, claims she takes full responsibility, so how come today she refused to acknowledge any wrongdoing. we're keeping her honest. that's at the top of the hour. >> larry: that's "ac 360." 10:00 eastern, 7:00 p.m. pacific. by the way, marc lamont hill's show will premiere "our world with black enterprises." check your local stations for time. >> larry: don't ask, don't tell, repeal it? >> no. i want the gays to come out against girls in the military. >> gay people should be able to serve freely. right now obama is playing to the center. he feels like he has the gay wing as well as the black movement in his pocket and he's starting to play to the center. he's worried about independent or swing voters. >> larry: is that a mistake? >> from a strategic perspective it makes sense but from an

ethical sense it's disappointing. i think president obama is gesturing from the left and governing from the middle and that's dangerous politically. >> larry: why are you opposed to repealing it? >> you say serve openly. they can serve, they just -- i just don't understand -- two things. i don't understand the idea. i can't get through the workday without talking about my sex life. how can i serve. point one. point two, all they do is not talk about it. point two, the military -- >> straight people can continue to talk about it. >> no. i said point two. >> it's like -- it's not like people walk around and talk about their sexually. >> that's all you have to do? not talk about your sex life? >> it's about who you are. >> you don't want sexuality influencing young men who are supposed to be defending the nation and by the way, i hate the idea of people not in the military deciding. let's just change the rules here. >> people in the military have support it had. colin powell has support it had. >> yeah, i don't trust generals. >> you don't trust general powell now? >> generals are very political. they kiss up to get ahead.

i'll trust a colonel. but you don't change the rules for something that's very specialized. being in the military is very different. >> larry: were you in favor when clinton propose it had? >> i think i was practicing law at the time and i had no opinion. i probably didn't even know what happened. >> larry: we'll be back with more. don't go away. we know why we're here.

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>> larry: more about our breaking news. white house chief of staff, rahm emanuel will leave the white house to run for mayor of chicago. three democratic sources close to rahm emanuel tell our own john king that emanuel informed senior colleagues that he's all but certain to run for mayor. what do you think of that? >> i'm excited, larry. i'm happy for chicago and i'm happy for democrats. because rahm emanuel has been a bull in a china shop. i think he's been bad for the obama administration. >> larry: he's a failed chief of staff? >> don't want to call him a failure but not the best thing for the obama administration. the obama administration campaigned well but not governing quite as strong. >> larry: should they go out of the white house to get the next one? >> absolutely. i think they need some new blood. >> larry: what do you think? >> maybe go up to alaska, delaware, and when you had your little interview with cooper anderson coming up on that alan grayson accusing his opponent of being a member of the taliban.

can we stop talking about christine o'donnell like there's something the matter with her. she's against pornography. >> you refer to democrats as hezbocrats. >> never heard me say that and i'm a little insulted you're confusing me with alers member of the republican party. >> i would never do that. you are the chief of the extreme right wing. >> you're in big trouble now. >> larry: are we going to extend the tax cuts of the bush administration? they put it off -- >> they will leave it for the lame duck congress or the crazy duck congress where they are going to pass all the crazy things that marc lamont hill wants. >> food provisions. >> cap and trade. >> larry: will they extend? >> my gut says yes. my gut says yes. >> larry: the tax cuts will stick? >> that's my gut. >> larry: you want them to stick? >> i'm sad, but yeah. >> it's true, democrat house, democrat senate, democrat president. >> for now. >> i'm sad. i hope that they don't extend them. >> larry: if there's a big republican victory don't you think -- >> that's possible. the only way they might back down if enough democrats who

remain and will be there after the lame duck congress are worried about the election that will be a lot better for republicans in two years. >> i don't know about that. >> next two years and four years, a lot better for us in terms of the senate seats that are up. >> absolutely. >> senate seats perhaps. all depends on what happens with the economy but one thing about obama that's interesting is he may be better more republicans in the house. >> i agree. >> a much better negotiator. >> i don't think he's a good front-runner. they don't play well from the front. >> larry: a better underdog. >> a better underdog and negotiator. he governs for consensus, doesn't govern to win. >> i wouldn't say that but the republicans will stop him from doing completely crazy things but we're not going to take the senate so you guys will be in trouble. >> i don't know about that. i see interesting things happening regardless of what happens in november. >> larry: one thing. it will not be dull. as long as you two are around it will never be dull. ann coulter and marc lamont hill, guaranteed we'll have them back. okay? and good luck to both of >> you thanks, larry. more luck for me t